James A. LindsayJames A. LindsayJul 25, 2016
Nothing to see here.
17 Replies19 Likes↻ Reply
What do you think? Reply to James A. Lindsay.
poetnwarpoetnwarJul 26, 2016264 views
Nothing to see here.
All I saw while reading this was "If you're not with us, you're against us!" and "A vote for a Third Party is the same as a vote for the other guy!" These are bullying tactics used by both parties to convince people into thinking their votes are wasted unless they vote for their side.
This is partisan drivel that is meaningless and without merit. Don't buy into it. A vote for any candidate is simply a +1 in their column and a +0 in the other columns. By voting for a Third Party, my vote does not magically end up in the septic tank of either Repubs or Dems (as alluded to by the authors). One of the duties of being a citizen in this nation is the charge to use the power of our votes for the betterment of the nation, based upon our beliefs and views. That vote is not owed to nor owned by any one party. I own my vote and it goes where I want. If I vote Third Party, it isn't because I somehow expect that candidate to win, but to show that I do not like what the other two major parties are offering, nothing more. I will not choose to vote for either Trump or Hillary in some sort of appeal to a lesser evil. I consider both to be bad for this nation and want no part of either. I don't want your lesser evil! We deserve better than both of these candidates and I see virtually no distinction between them or what they will bring about. Considering how both like to flip flop around from day to day, who knows what they will stand for once they actually attain the office of President.
Granted, I do not see any way that a Third Party will win this particular election, but I am not voting for instant gratification by picking the "winner". I am voting because I hold out hope that enough people share a similar distaste for the bitter teas on offer by the two major parties. People who are growing sick and tired of the same old bullshit that has plagued this nation for decades and want something better for ourselves or future generations. If enough of them vote 3rd party, maybe it will inspire even more to take a stand. Maybe, just maybe, qualified and worthy people will see this as an opportunity to start getting involved in politics themselves. Who knows? A few election cycles down the road, we might end up with a Third Party candidate worthy of the office of President of the United States and have enough voters to get them there.

Oh, that line about how Trump was an existential threat to the first world and Hillary is just a mere politician? Please. You couldn't fill a tea pot with the differences between the two. But, if you could, it'd be a bitter brew.
2 Replies5 Likes↻ Reply
James A. LindsayJames A. LindsayJul 26, 2016235 views
Nothing to see here.
Because of the way winners are tabulated in a first-past-the-post voting system such as our own, a vote off one of the two major parties has a direct impact on the party that it was more likely to go against had it been placed defensively against them. This is basic voting theory.

Stands for ideology are great and all, and you can go to bed feeling good about yourself that you didn't vote for lesser evil, but it's small consolation if the great evil wins and turns out to be outside the boundaries of "ordinary evil," especially if the alternative is more evil in portrayal than in reality, which may be the case here.

1 Reply6 Likes↻ Reply
poetnwarpoetnwarJul 27, 2016248 views
Nothing to see here.
I'm fairly acquainted with the first-past-the-post voting system and the mathematical formulas that lie behind your thinking.

However, therein lies the problem. Mathematics are great when it comes to patterns or statistical analysis. What they fall short on is understanding and accounting for outside variables that effect voting results. For every Third Party voter, there are dozens of normal voters that choose to stay home or are dissatisfied with their normal party, leading them to vote elsewhere.

Let's take the great (and over-used) example of Bush-Gore-Nader of 2000.

Everyone wants to blame Nader for Gore's loss. After all, Gore only lost Florida by 543 votes! If only a fraction of the 97,488 Nader-Green Party voters had voted Gore, he would have taken the Presidency, right? What that theory (and Duverger's Law) fails to account for are a few small, very critical details:

1) It completely overlooks the 200,000+ registered Democrats who were disenfranchised by the Democratic party and voted for Bush. Even 1% of that would have propelled Gore to victory. Is that Nader's or any of the 3rd Party candidates' fault? Nope, that's a Democrat and Gore problem.

2) The Butterfly ballot and the Florida voting procedures led to many issues that were confusing. An entire district's votes ended up being cast out. Buchanan himself said those ballots were majority Gore. Did 3rd Party voters cause that? Nope, that's a Florida problem.

3) The party line votes of the Supreme Court. Once again, proof positive that having only 2 major parties in this nation lead to biased decisions or gridlock, helping no one. Are 3rd Party voters to blame there? How does that variable factor into the equation?

4) Democrat voters who were disenfranchised, but just decided to stay home and not bother at all. Only about 52% of registered democrats made it to the polls to vote and 200k of those voted for Bush! Once again, how is that a 3rd Party voter's fault?

5) Nader and the Green Party. Strangely enough, Nader is always the scape-goat here, yet, he was only 1 of 8 3rd Party candidates on the ballot to get votes. Why do the other 7 not get blamed? After all, any single one of them had enough votes to push Gore over the top. It doesn't matter, however. Gore couldn't even win his own home state. Once again, a Democrat party caused problem, not a 3rd Party voter problem.

The entire idea begins to lose weight once the party bases lose faith. Disenfranchised voters, unmotivated voters, and ultimately, the candidate and their platform is what loses elections. Duverger's Law only works in hindsight, using poll closing numbers and then making analysis of what could have been, what might have happened, and what should have happened if people only voted the way "I" wanted to them to vote complaints. Every attempt at using those types of formulas as predictors have failed. Why? Because voters aren't always predicable and the Law only measures correlation after the fact. It has no clue on the actual causation.

Looking around, we can clearly see that the party bases are unstable and millions of voters are on the edge. How will they vote? Will they remain loyal to party or will they revolt, fleeing to the opponent or even to a 3rd party? Or, just perhaps, they are so disgusted, they will just stay home. Either way, the idea that 3rd Party votes steal votes away is nonsense, unless you somehow believe that they are owned by the two parties and shouldn't go elsewhere. No, if the candidate loses, it is solely because of their failure to convince voters to vote for them and it rests upon their shoulders alone.

Don't blame the voters, blame the candidate.
◇ View1 Like↻ Reply
Infinite DissentInfinite DissentJul 26, 2016347 views
Nothing to see here.
There is arguably a valid point to be made about Hillary being somewhat less terrible a candidate than Trump (the line "she's wrong about everything, but within normal parameters" sums up the situation well). But those tweets by Chuck Wendig don't do the argument any favours with their immature, hyperbolic gibberish.

A "plague unto man". "Magma enema". "Shit scorpions". "Fascism fuckery". The "Actual Devil". Endless "BUH BUH BUH" like it's some kind of Beavis and Butthead cartoon.

Is this guy supposed to be a bona fide political commentator or a nine-year-old in a school playground?
1 Reply4 Likes↻ Reply
@shimafamily@shimafamilyJul 26, 2016286 views
Nothing to see here.
Voting for H. because it is like drinking crappy tea is not the most inspiring thing in the world. I'll believe it when I see anyone voting for H. start their daily routine by pouring vinegar into all their drinking water, downing it, and doing this every single day until election day. All this while croaking "Better than magma shit." The sane person's response to that proposal is "How about no?"
3 Replies3 Likes↻ Reply
Michelle CatlinMichelle CatlinJul 26, 2016367 views
Nothing to see here.
You've officially lost all your credibility with your "Where are those libertarians and conservatives" article by endorsing one of the most corrupt authoritarian globalist warmongers of all time.
1 Reply3 Likes↻ Reply
grayscaleplaidgrayscaleplaidJul 26, 2016285 views
Nothing to see here.
"Hillary Clinton is an experienced centrist progressive clearly willing and able to play the political game, even if you don't like how she plays it." Of FFS. Privately, HRC is a favor-trading kleptocrat whose primary concern with any appointment is how she can monetize it. Publicly, HRC is whatever is focus-grouping well this week. Her only elections were in the Democrat sinecure of NY, and she still would have gotten creamed in 2000 if Guiliani hadn't dropped out at the last minute. She has gotten as far as she has only by leeching off others- Bill, Comey, Wasserman-Shultz- and using their efforts to line her pockets.
As a side-note, I've got some first-hand experience with clearances, classified info, and the institutional paranoia that surrounds them. If any of us had done a fraction of what HRC did with her server, we'd be going to federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison for the rest of our natural lives. Hillary got a pass for no other reason than that she's Hillary Clinton, and she's too well-connected to prosecute.
Since I'm assuming we didn't defeat to the USSR so we could create our own nomenklatura, so I can sleep easy knowing I'm going to vote for anyone but her.
4 Replies1 Like↻ Reply
James A. LindsayJames A. LindsayJul 26, 2016189 views
Nothing to see here.
It's a usual professional dictum not to respond (much) to commentary on your own writing (or to read it, unless you have to). I'm making a note here for the record that I only responded to the comments here specifically because I was asked to.
◇ View1 Like↻ Reply
Quick Sign Up
Allthink is a community of free thinkers. It's fun and free.
(private, SPAM-free)
(use A-Z and 0-9 characters only)
(8+ characters long)